Going Deep with Sarah and Teresa on SLEEP!
In this month's Going Deep, Teresa and Sarah answer your questions about sleep: co-sleeping with your toddler and a new baby, navigating the politics of being married and nursing to sleep, getting a co-sleeping baby to nap, and dealing with naps with multiple kids that co-sleep. We would also like to mention that while there’s a lot of co-sleeping going on in these two households, we fully understand that this isn’t the right choice for everyone and that giving your child their own space to sleep has its own set of positives and beauty. If you are wondering about sleep training, please see this article which also includes some great book references. Please send your questions to us here!
Hey ladies, We are expecting our second child and we are happily co-sleeping with our 3 year old and so wondering how night time feeds and newborn rythms will affect this, that is what is the ideal setup for those newborn early days, what do others do?
-Sarah
SWO: With my son, he was in the room next to us and would sometimes come into our room and sleep on a little bed on the floor. He sleeps through anything, so it really wasn’t an issue when the baby would wake up at night or cry. Wyatt would pretty much sleep through it. It really depends on your older child and how deep they sleep. And if they do wake up at night, how hard is it to get them to go back to sleep?
For our new baby, we had a basinet next to the bed where I would start her off for the night when she was really little and then very quickly she started sleeping in the middle of our bed. Three years later she is still there, and I couldn’t be happier. It just depends on what works best for you and your kids.
TP: Hi Sarah, We ended up using a Montessori mattress that Bodhi slept on and then had Forest in the bed with us. As you know from Co-sleeping, bubs typically don’t make too much more than a squawk sound for milk in the middle of the night as you’re right there to feed. In our case, it meant that Bodhi didn’t wake up during Forest’s middle of the night nursing sessions. I ensured that Bodhi had stopped nursing throughout the night before Forest came along so that he would happily sleep on his own mattress. I’d usually bring Forest into bed with Bodhi, nurse them both together until Bodhi was asleep and then Forest and I would get in to bed ourselves. It was always a really beautiful nighttime ritual and meant that Bodhi still got to have me there to snuggle him in to a deep sleep.
My daughter is 18 months and we have been co-sleeping with my her since she was 6 months because she would wake up every time we tried to put her in her crib. She used to wake up every 30 min but that is now down to waking 2 times a night unless she is teething. I am still also nursing and it seems at night the only way she can fall asleep Is either nursing or knowing my breasts are out just in case she needs that reassurance by keeping her hand on my breast. Is this normal? When she is teething she wakes every hour wanting to nurse everyone says I spoil her but I dont mind. Sometimes I just ask to have an extra 30 minutes of sleep. My husband also wants me to stop nursing when she is 2. He wants me back how do I balance what I want to do and my husbands needs? He feels it's weird to nurse past 2... well, obviously he doesn't understand lol
-Emily
TP: Hi Emily,
This is such an interesting question. Only you and your daughter will know when the organic end to your nursing relationship is. The WHO recommends nursing up to the age of two years or beyond. Breastfeeding is only beneficial if mama and bubs are doing well and feeling good about the arrangement. Sarah and I nursed our children well past age two (and age three!) and communication with your partner is key. Carve out other moments that he can “have you back”, perhaps during the day if you have a sitter or maybe you can make time to watch a movie together, grab a bite to eat out, etc. We just came to the realisation in our household that night time is never going to be an ideal time for us to connect as a couple since we co-sleep with our kids and we are both exhausted by the end of the day! Best of luck
SWO: Hi Emily,
First of all, YES very normal! It is different with every child, but I have a little one who nursed until she was three and it was a major deal when I weaned her. She was not happy about it and sometimes still talks about how much she misses it. I weaned my son at the age of 2 because I was having a hard time getting pregnant and felt if my body was more nourished and not nursing, it might help. I got pregnant the next month after I weaned. I really believe it’s important to be very open with your partner about how you feel. If you aren’t ready to quit nursing and your baby isn’t either maybe there is a compromise? Maybe you cut down nursing to special times of the day like before bed and in the morning, but no more nursing at night.
I personally know how difficult this is to implement and it does take time. We had a lot of discussions with our kids about how when the sun goes to sleep at night, milkies go to sleep to and when the sun is up you can have milkies again. A few nights of reminding your little one “milkies are asleep and you and mommy are sleeping too,” and the hope is your little one will stop waking to comfort nurse and just go back to sleep. It does happen eventually, it just takes a little patience and some sleepy nights.
The hope with this is that you can do a cuddle feed before laying down at night and then help your little one to sleep and then have some time for just you and your husband. If your husband is wanting the bed free from co-sleeping then this is something you first have to decide if you want. Maybe you sit down and decide what you are ready for and what you feel is right for you and you little one and then have a very honest conversation with your partner about how you feel. Maybe open it up to some ideas from him as well.
Wishing you all the best.
I co-sleep with my 7 month old boy, he tends to sleep in his crib until I go to bed and then he comes in with me which I personally love but I think my husband is struggling with it. I nurse him to sleep and he tends to wake up very easily if I’m not right there, I think he likes the warmth and comfort. I wanted to know as fellow co-sleepers how you do nap time in your house? As a way to start with something small to give me a bit of free time during the day.
-Courtney
SWO: Hi Courtney,
I think the same way that you get your baby down for sleep at night in the crib could work for nap time too. Set up the room to be dark, have a sound machine on and however you like to put your baby down do it this way for naps. Figure out when he is getting sleepy and then get him all comfy for nap in his crib. If you have not had a normal nap time up until this point, it may take a few days of trying this around the same time for it to work.
My schedule was always all over the place, so if I wasn’t at home and able to get my daughter to sleep I would get her down in the carrier or let her fall asleep in the car seat. If I ever had a hard time getting her down at home and maybe she was even a bit over tired I would just put her in my Ergo carrier and help her fall asleep this way and then gently lay her down once fully asleep on my bed for a nap.
TP: Hi Courtney! So nap time usually looks like this for us; in the car seat, in a carrier, in the pram or if we are at home it will be lying down on the bed, nursing bubs to sleep and then verrrrry stealthily sneaking out! Having a sound machine on and keeping the room dark really helps. Our babies have really learnt to nap on the go so luckily they can sleep anywhere. We just follow their cues and depending on what’s going on, decide in which form the nap will happen. Often it’s on the run and they’ll have a few extra catch up sleeps throughout the day if it’s interrupted by being transferred from car seat into pram etc. Lately, I’ve been letting Poet nap in the car for as long as she wants and I sit in the front seat, true crime podcast on and get some work done!
I’m struggling with the logistics of getting two kids to sleep during the day. If I have them both in the same space they wind each other up too much and then they are overstimulated. But if I separate them it doesn’t feel very connected. Plus by the time I rock, feed and settle my son, my daughter gets very loud and wants my time- so then I rush to her. And if it takes a while to get her to sleep, then my son is awake again!!! So I’m spending such a large chunk of my day settling them!! Can you please talk through the logistics of how you settle two children using more of an attachment method? And do you teach self-settling at all? Or is this something that children just simply don’t need to be able to do in your opinion? I see these wonderful Instagram shots of multiple kids sleeping together in one big space and I LOVE the concept, I just don’t know how to make it happen!I’m struggling a bit because I love all the principles of the attachment parenting that I read, but find it hard to logistically put it into practice!!!
-Kathryn
TP: Hi Kathryn, so this is what my household looks like with Co-sleeping! The boys now sleep in their own room, but together. I put them all to sleep, so I bring Poet in to bed with Bodhi and Forest, we read a book and then I tandem nurse Forest and Poet. I am there lying with them to ensure they don’t keep each other up, if they start to distract each other I say “time for sleep, save that thought for tomorrow.” I put on a relaxation meditation for kids by New Holistic Centre and they’ll focus on the guided meditation stories which help them lull to sleep. If Poet seems too awake or she is keeping them up, I’ll have either my mum or Mark take her out the room and I’ll put her to sleep as soon as both the boys are asleep. The meditation is key as it gives them something to focus on. I highly recommend it, plus it’s just a really beautiful way to get them down to sleep.
SWO: Hi Kathryn,
I am so curious your little ones ages. When my daughter was a baby, I would get her settled in a dock a tot in my room in a safe place, and then go and help my son lay down and rest. I would read a book to him and sing him a song and his sister would make noises in the other room but she wouldn’t be crying. I would tell my older son that he could sing some songs and rest his body and I would come back to check on him. I would then go check on my daughter and she would usually be asleep, and my son would fall asleep soon after. Their age difference is three years.
When my daughter was a little bigger we tried nap time in the same room a few times as I too wanted them to nap together and it only ever worked a few times without massive effort on my part. So how I would make this happen more efficiently for me is, I would rock her in a carrier as my son would try to fall asleep and when my daughter would be asleep I would lay her down.
Now they are 3 and 6 and they don’t nap anymore but when we go to bed at night, I tell them if they want to sleep in the same bed they have to rest their bodies and close their eyes and usually they are able to go to sleep together. They would much rather be together than be separated, so they try really hard to make it happen.
Editor’s Note: Sarah touched on this above, but I wanted to reiterate to all our readers, do not feel bad if you can't always have your children in the same room at the same time. The most important thing is that your children are getting the sleep that they need and all children are different, so what works for some, may not work for you or for both your kids. Co-sleeping works best for some families, and sleep training works best for others. While sleeping together as a family can be super magical and works for some, giving your child the gift of their own space is also an enormous, special gift.
And to ALL of our readers. Please remember that life on Instagram and life in reality are NOT the same thing. Children don't always sleep perfectly all together during the day, so don't feel bad if your life isn't looking like these perfectly curated photos. No one's does, and you know that in at least half of those Instagram photos, the mom is bribing them with M&Ms to pretend to be asleep anyway!
